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A Note to our Personnel:

A policy letter concerning logging PIC time from Col Moseley: 


From: "Col. Rick Moseley"  
To: "VAWG Info List Server"  
Subject: VAWG-INFO: FW: [VA117] Orientation Pilots - Clarification 
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 19:53:34 -0500 
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To All VAWG Pilots,
Recently, we had a member make an inquiry with the FAA about the CAP
exemption that allows us to be compensated for some flights but not for
others.  The National HQ General Counsel has provided me with the following
explanation of the situation and under what circumstances private pilots may
fly cadet orientation flights.  I encourage all of you to read the message
below to determine where and how the opinion provided by legal counsel
pertains to your situation and how the FAA Q&A answer applies to your
situation. 


I want to make as many opportunities available to each of our pilots as
possible.  However, it is your responsibility to make sure you are compliant
with the applicable laws and regulations.  If you require further
information on this subject, I suggest you obtain the advice of your own
legal counsel.


Rick Moseley
VAWG/CC


-----Original Message-----
From: Leibowitz, Stan [mailto:SLEIBOWITZ@capnhq.gov] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:13 AM
To: Odell, Gordon; Col. Rick Moseley; Lt Col Jim Truxel (VAWG/DO);
Karen.Arendt@faa.gov
Cc: LtCol J.E. Kenkel; Randolph.Horner@faa.gov; LtCol Eric Litt; LtCol
Warren Vest; lynnajensen@comcast.net; Kalisky, Pete; Ted R. Chavez;
rock@bice-palermo.com
Subject: RE: [VA117] Orientation Pilots - Clarification


Rick,


Maybe I can shed a little additional light on the subject.


The starting point is FAR 61.113(a) which prohibits a private pilot, for
compensation or hire, from acting as PIC of an aircraft, unless there is a
specific exception in the FARs.  As Gordon pointed out, the FAA's position
has long been that being able to log time when the aircraft is being
furnished and the operating costs are being paid for is considered
"compensation".


There are a number of exceptions in FAR 61.113(b) through (g).  The one most
often used by private pilots in general is (c):  "A private pilot may not
pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with
passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport
expenditures, or rental fees. "  This does not apply where CAP is paying for
the operating expenses.


The exeption that often applies to CAP is (e), but this only applies to
"search and location operations".  Cadet orientation flights do not fall
into this category.


CAP has an exemption, No. 6771B, which, although listed as an exemption to
FAR 61.113(e) may be interpreted to extend the "search and location
operations" exception to other types of flights, provided that the flight is
an "Air Force assigned mission".  (This is one of the key issues we are
trying to clarify with the FAA.)  In any event, the Air Force has said that
CAP cadet orientation flights are not "Air Force assigned missions", so the
exemption would not cover the flight. 


None of the other exceptions in FAR 61.113 apply, so a private pilot may not
act as PIC for the flight if he/she receives "compensation".  To avoid
receiving compensation, under the CAF interpretation that Gordon sent you,
the private pilot cannot "log" the time as PIC.


Next we have to look at what "logging the time" means.  There is a recent
item at the FAA's Q&A web site that addresses this.  It is found at
"Revision:  Q&A #254" at http://www.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc
and appears to say that logging time means being able to credit the time for
the purpose of meeting the (1) 14 CFR Part 61 aeronautical experience or (2)
recency of experience requirements described in § 61.51(a)(1) and (2).  From
this I would recommend that the time be recorded, but not credited or
counted for the above two purposes.


I know it is complicated, but I hope this helps.


Stanley H. Leibowitz, Col, CAP 
General Counsel 
  
sleibowitz@cap.gov 
Voice - (334) 264-7152 
Fax - (334) 265-4352 
Cell - (334) 546-2906 



-----Original Message-----
From: Odell, Gordon 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:53 AM
To: Col. Rick Moseley; 'Lt Col Jim Truxel (VAWG/DO)'; Karen.Arendt@faa.gov
Cc: 'LtCol J.E. Kenkel'; Randolph.Horner@faa.gov; 'LtCol Eric Litt'; 'LtCol
Warren Vest'; lynnajensen@comcast.net; Leibowitz, Stan
Subject: RE: [VA117] Orientation Pilots - Clarification


Rick,


What appears to be the initial question in this stream is "What is the
regulation that prohibits private pilots from logging free flight time ' in
furtherance of an additional FAA certificate or rating or for meeting the
recent flight experience requirements of FAR part 61'?"


The answer: FARs 61.23 and 61.113 per FAA Interpretation 197-23 (attached)
as clarified in discussions between FAA and CAP.


Stanley Leibowitz (GC) and Rock Palermo (Special counsel to the commander)
have begun a discussion with FAA about this and (I believe) other issues. It
is my understanding that the notion is a clarification received during that
discussion of the attached interpretation issued regarding flying of
Confederate Air Force aircraft to air shows/displays by volunteer private
pilots.


Although I'm glad to help, Stan is the expert here, available again on
Monday at 334/264-7152 or sleibowitz@cap.gov.  (He's on TDY at this time.)


Gordon
GORDON W. ODELL, JR., Lt.Col., CAP
Assistant General Counsel, HQ CAP
Voice (334) 953-1756
Fax: (334) 265-4352
America, confirm thy liberty in law.





-----Original Message-----
From: Col. Rick Moseley [mailto:cc.va@vawg.cap.gov] 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:30 AM
To: 'Lt Col Jim Truxel (VAWG/DO)'; Karen.Arendt@faa.gov
Cc: 'LtCol J.E. Kenkel'; Randolph.Horner@faa.gov; 'LtCol Eric Litt'; 'LtCol
Warren Vest'; lynnajensen@comcast.net; Odell, Gordon
Subject: RE: [VA117] Orientation Pilots - Clarification


Karen,
As Jim says, this is a major discussion between FAA Headquarters and CAP
Headquarters over the issue of flight for compensation and hire and the
definition of whether logging PIC time by a private pilot constitutes
compensation.  I would like to refer you to the CAP corporate counsel's
office at Maxwell AFB, AL.  They can fill you in, in much detail than Jim or
I can on the details of the discussion.  Please feel free to talk with Mr.
Gordon Odell at 334-953-1756 or e-mail at Godell@cap.gov.  I have copied him
on my reply so that he knows to expect your call or e-mail.


Rick Moseley, Col, CAP
Virginia Wing Commander
H 540-898-1663
C 703-201-6037


-----Original Message-----
From: Lt Col Jim Truxel (VAWG/DO) [mailto:do.va@vawg.cap.gov]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:18 AM
To: Karen.Arendt@faa.gov
Cc: LtCol J.E. Kenkel; Randolph.Horner@faa.gov; Col Rick Moseley; LtCol Eric
Litt; LtCol Warren Vest; lynnajensen@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [VA117] Orientation Pilots - Clarification


Karen,


Sorry it took so long for my response. Based on my discussions with CAP
officials the following is the best explaination I can  provide.


The subject of the question touches deep into CAP's FAR exemption. This
material is fully understood only by FAA headquarters lawyers and CAP's
general counsel.


The part about "...may not use that logged time in furtherance of an
additional FAA certificate or rating or for meeting the recent flight
experience requirements of FAR part 61" derives from the FAA's position that
logging time for a flight that does not cost the pilot any money constitutes
compensation and therefore may be done by a commercial pilot but not a
private pilot. CAP is trying to craft a way that a private pilot can log the
time but not accept any compensation and thereby stay out of trouble with
the FAA (not CAP). It is muddy water for sure, and that is why only the
lawyers really understand it.


I have included LtCol Jim Kenkel, Va Wing Legal Officer,  in this response
and he may be able to provide additional information.


Jim Truxel, LtCol , CAP
Va Wing Director of Operations.



----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:32 PM
Subject: Fw: [VA117] Orientation Pilots - Clarification



>
>
>
>
> Jim:
>
> Mr. Reichert, who attends some of our safety meetings forwarded a question
> concerning CAP orientation flights (see below).  The textbook response
> would be: any flights flown as PIC can be logged as such.  The question
> would be whether the flights themselves would qualify toward furtherance 
> of
> a rating.  The orientation flights that I know involve aircraft
> 'familiarization' hops for uncertificated cadets.  If the pilot is already
> a private pilot, there is not much in these flights that can be credited
> toward an instrument rating, except building PIC time.  Perhaps you can
> clarify what type of flying is conducted during the orientation flights.
>
> I am copying Randy Horner on this e-mail.  Let me know what you decide, 
> and
> I appreciate your assistance and response.
>
> Karen Arendt
> Safety Program Manager
> Washington Flight Standards District Office
> Tel: (703)661-8160 ext. 206
> Washington FSDO: http://aea.faa.gov/aea200/ea27
>
> ----- Forwarded by Karen Arendt/AEA/FAA on 01/14/2005 01:19 PM -----
>
>                      Randolph Horner
>                                               To:       artz@us.ibm.com, 
> Karen Arendt/AEA/FAA@FAA
>                      01/12/2005 08:11         cc:
>                      AM                       Subject:  Fw: [VA117] 
> Orientation Pilots - Clarification
>
>
>
>
>
> Al,
>
> I have forwarded this email to Karen Arendt at FSDO.  She is out of town
> this week, but will point you in the right directions shortly.
>
>
> Randy Horner
> Air Traffic Control Support Specialist
> Potomac Consolidated TRACON
> 3699 MacIntosh Drive
> Warrenton VA  20187
> 540-349-7522
> fax 540-349-7601
>
> ----- Forwarded by Randolph Horner/AEA/FAA on 01/12/2005 08:10 AM -----
>
>                      Al Artz
>                              To:       Randolph 
> Horner/AEA/FAA@FAA
>                                               cc:
>                      01/12/2005 07:40         Subject:  Fw: [VA117] 
> Orientation Pilots - Clarification
>                      AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Randy, I realize that you might not be the right person for this question,
> but if so, could you answer or point me in the right direction who could. 
> I
> could drive out to the FSDO at Dulles or email someone there if you could
> provide me with an address. Appreciate your help. Hope this does not
> inconvience your busy schedule. Thanks.
>
>
> PLEASE NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBERS
>
> Al Artz
> ITS Quality Assurance
> Home Office: 703-579-1803 T/L 930-9549
>
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded by Al Artz/Bethesda/IBM on 01/12/2005 07:38 AM -----
>
>                         alan@reicherte
>                         ch.com
>                         Sent by:
>                         va117-bounces@ (Embedded image moved to file:
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>                         ech.com                                        To
>                                                   (Embedded image moved
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>                         01/12/2005                va117@lists.reichertech
>                         07:00 AM                  .com
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>                                                                        cc
>                                                   (Embedded image moved
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>                                                                   Subject
>                                                   (Embedded image moved
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>                                                   Re: [VA117] Orientation
>                                                   Pilots - Clarification
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> Can anyone on this list point me to the FAA reg that prohibits this?:
>
>> A CAP private pilot approved by the Wing Commander or his/her designee to
>> fly CAP cadet orientation flights may do so and may log the time but may
>> not
>> use that logged time in furtherance of an additional FAA certificate or
>> rating or for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of FAR
>> part
>> 61.
>
> - Alan
>
>
>
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